356: Create Operational Rigor with Abhi Jadhav

Abhi Jadhav, Founder and CEO of Bay Leaf Digital and Founder of Brazenly, helps B2B SaaS leaders create operational rigor while embracing AI, innovation, and disciplined execution. Driven by the freedom to experiment, anticipate change, and take the road less traveled, Abhi builds businesses that combine human expertise with AI-powered systems to help teams remain competitive and shape their own futures.

In this conversation, Abhi introduces The Operational Rigor Framework—Aggregate To-Dos, Import Them into a System, Prioritize Weekly, and Execute. He explains how turning commitments into organized, prioritized tasks prevents work from falling through the cracks and improves execution across client projects, internal initiatives, and personal responsibilities. Abhi also discusses keeping humans in the loop when deploying AI agents, responding to rapid changes in the SaaS market, and driving growth through visibility, exceptional people, and innovation.

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Create Operational Rigueur with Abhi Jadhav

Good day. Steve Preda here, and today I’m joined by Abhi Jadhav, founder and CEO of Bay Leaf Digital, a B2B SaaS marketing agency he’s run since 2013. And he’s also the founder of Brazenly, an AI agent orchestration platform he’s building for marketing teams. Abhi, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Steve. Appreciate it.

Well, great to have you here. And I’m super interested in how you are evolving your business and your focus on SaaS companies, which is very interesting. But I’d like to start with the question, your personal why. So how are you contributing to human flourishing? What is your personal why, and how do you manifest it in your business, in Bay Leaf Digital?

Yeah. So I gave this some thought. It’s been several years since I’ve been running the agency, so it took me back a few years to figure out, well, why did I even start this? So I’m going to date myself, and this is way back when I was in business school. One of my dear friends and classmates at the time, she pointed to me when she was asked, “Who’s most likely to strike it out on their own and run their own business?” And I thought that was really funny at that time because I had no desire to be my own entrepreneur or guy running your own business, et cetera. I was through and through a corporate guy.

And a few years later, I realized that I don’t really get energized by playing corporate games to climb the ladder. I prefer freedom to do things and to experiment. And I love taking the road less traveled, and it’s not just speak, it’s actually doing. Yeah. There’s a sign here. It’s a Jeep sign that says, “Road ends and fun begins.” And that kind of encapsulates who I am, really. Yeah. So when I saw this sign, I’m like, “This is me. It needs to go on my wall.” Okay. So that’s my personal why, how I ended up doing what I’m doing.

So how does it manifest in Bay Leaf or even Brazenly? What is that road that has not been traveled yet that you are embarking on?

So it is more about being able to anticipate what is coming and being able to be ready for it. I think that is primarily the difference, or to me, that is being my own business owner, it allows me to do that. So moving from an agency and seeing what is coming, AI is going to touch all of us. It already has in so many different ways.

So understanding where we are going and being able to do something about it rather than wait for someone else to come along and tell us, “You guys are now obsolete, and we are now moving on to something else.” So it allows me to chart my own path and be able to control, to a certain extent, I can’t say 100%, to a certain extent, what our business destiny is going to be.

So where are we going? What is your vision of the direction?

AI has tremendous power, right? And we are still very early, in the early stages of where it’s going to take us. But I’m a firm believer that the human in the loop is extremely important, and that we need to shape AI systems, our posture, in a manner that we maximize the use of AI while making sure that it is being run for the benefit of humans. So the way we approach it is, yes, we will adopt AI, but at the same time, we will never compromise on human in the loop in that process.

So our approach is, let’s take things that are easily automated. Let’s take things that we would otherwise not have been able to do. I have a framework on how we deploy AI, and the lowest part of that framework is obvious processes need to be automated. Top part of that framework is things that you could not ever do because it was impossible, impractical to do, automate that.

But in all of that, there is a certain amount of co-piloting or piloting that is needed in order to get valuable outcomes. Where I see us going is we will become pilots or co-pilots with extremely efficient and informed agents that will do the work, but they will not do the work exactly as is needed unless there’s a human in the loop that’s guiding it, right?

Yeah.

And I foresee this for the next several years. At some point, and this evolves all the time, but that’s kind of our posture at the moment.

Very interesting. So basically, AI agents do the work, or much of the repetitive work, a big part of the work, and the humans are directing the agents. Is that your vision?

Humans are directing the agents as well as checking on agent outputs, basically being the guide on making sure that things get done the way they should be done. So more and more, we are leaning on domain expertise, people who know what needs to be done, have that knowledge to be able to man these agents today.

Yeah. That is fascinating. So you mentioned that you have a framework. So what is your framework?

I have multiple frameworks. Let me talk about probably the most fundamental, foundational framework that can be used by anyone and everyone. Again, going back to my days before the agency, when I was in the corporate world, we would do 360 feedbacks. And at one point, one of the feedback I got, obviously it was constructive feedback, but it was that, “Abhi’s got a great team and he’s a great leader, but sometimes the team does not follow through on things that we’re committed to.”

I looked at that feedback and I said, “This is not something that my team needs to fix. This is something that I need to fix. It’s not a team problem.” So we took that weakness and we turned that into a core strength. That is one of my foundational approaches to the way we work, the way we run the business. I’ll break it down for you. Here’s what we really do.

Yeah, please.

So you and I are having a conversation. Something comes out of that conversation and I tell you, “Hey, I’ll follow up. I’ll get back to you.” And great, I’ll make a note of it. We have 100 different conversations like this throughout the day. I talk to my clients, I talk to my team. Everyone has something that they need or they’re going to offer. So there’s a pile of things that need to be done.

And without having operational discipline around it, things fall through the cracks, right? So a very simple manifestation of that is, hey, make a list. Make a list of things. But there’s a lot more to that. Yeah, you can make a list. You can write it in pencil on a pad, and then it gathers dust, and then you look at it after a few months, you’re like, “Oh, I never really got back to this person, didn’t really do it.” So what we’ve done is we’ve evolved that into an operational rigor where nothing, almost nothing, ever falls through the cracks.

We talk, we’ll organize our thoughts. We’ll put it—it doesn’t matter. It’s a framework, right? It’s not a set of rules. So people might take down notes. They might use Zoom meeting transcripts, whatever it might be. But at the end of the day, we are constantly putting together a list of to-dos. And that’s never enough because at the end of the week, you need to make sure that you’re working on the most important things. So we’ll go through a prioritization process.

I go through it, my team goes through it, and then that defines what we do in the following week. It’s very agile-like, but it’s not quite agile. It’s a set of tasks that eventually kind of come together for a greater purpose. So we’re looking and we are prioritizing and going, “Which is important, which is not?” So the conversations that we have with our clients, I have internally with the team, the conversations are never about, “Hey, whatever happened to that thing?” It never happens. The conversations are more about, “We talked about this last week. Here’s where we are.

Here’s why we are going to either change course, not do it anymore, or we have found a different way of doing it.” In terms of just an extremely important skill, whether you’re a business owner, in the corporate world, to me, operational rigor that leads to disciplined execution is absolutely key.

So what are the steps to this operational rigor framework? How do you actually do it? What are three to five steps or elements that will allow us to communicate to our listeners and maybe for them to try it out?

Yeah. Let’s just list them out. So the first thing is just pulling together the to-dos, right? So whether it’s from OneNote or a pad or transcripts, at the end of the day, set aside 30 minutes, an hour max, typically towards the end of the week, to allow you to go through that list of things that you want to do, okay? Put them into a system that allows you to keep track of the status.

We use our systems. We use a tool called ClickUp. We’ve used many, many different tools, but today we use that tool. We are able to change priorities, we are able to increase or reduce the size of those tasks, and we are able to collaborate with people on those tasks. So we’ll organize that, spend an hour or so, put it in ClickUp in the agile framework, if you will, and then we execute throughout the week. Monday morning, I look at—there’s never a question about, “Hey, what am I going to do today?” Right?

There’s never a question of, “Oh my God, there’s such a long list of things to do. How am I ever going to get through?” By the time Monday morning hits, I know exactly what I’m doing. By the time Tuesday morning hits, I know how much I accomplished on Monday and what I’m accomplishing on Tuesday. So it becomes very well-oiled, and it’s execution through and through without letting anything fall through the cracks.

Okay.

And this is not just me. The entire team behaves this way, and that is what is different, right? This was my feedback I got so many years ago, is follow-through is not there. Okay, we turned that around, made it a strength.

Love it. So aggregate the to-dos, import them into the system, prioritize, and execute.

And execute. And throughout the week, if you need to reprioritize, reprioritize. It’s okay.

And this pertains to your client work, or that also pertains to your internal projects that are improving your business, your own business?

It pertains to everything. It’s fundamental to everything we do, right? When we are improving our own business, we break it down to a series of steps, and then we prioritize the steps. For example, Steve, I could have come to your podcast seeing that, oh, I have a meeting at 8:00 AM on Friday. Let me just make sure that I have a shirt on and come to it.

But the way I approached it is the same operational rigor, which is, okay, sometime during this week, I’m going to make sure that this wall behind me is clean. I’m going to make sure that I have my talking points, and I’m going to go through a dress rehearsal myself before I come to you. So this operational rigor offers a much higher quality of output.

So it’s not just client-facing, it’s not internal. It’s in everything we do, and that includes my personal life too. To a fault, I use lists to organize my life, but it’s the same concept. It’s not as rigorous, but it is, I have this big to-do, let me break it down into a smaller to-do, knock it out, move to the next one.

Love it. That’s great. It’s a good framework. We can call it the Operational Rigor Framework, perhaps.

Operational rigor? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Okay. So let’s switch gears here, and I’m really curious what drives growth in your businesses, in Bay Leaf Digital and your new business as well?

Okay, so we’re a marketing agency, but more specifically, we are a SaaS marketing agency. So we are niched down into SaaS, and then we niched down further. We are a B2B SaaS marketing agency, right? So it’s a very specific niche that we operate in. But some of the forces that affect us are the same as other agencies, other marketing agencies. So we live on this edge of constant change. And let me explain what these changes are. Number one, marketing channel change.

You’ve got Google, Meta, LinkedIn, you name it. They’re all making changes to their platforms all the time, right? Some of my marketers tell me they go in one day into the Meta advertising platform, and the next day they see something completely different. A feature has changed, and what they thought was working yesterday no longer works. So we are living on this edge of constant change as far as the marketing channels are concerned. Then it’s very surprising how much the economy actually affects us.

Because we serve a startup audience, B2B SaaS startup audience, whether there is money flowing in the economy or not actually affects us quite a bit. Post-Covid, when suddenly there was contraction, we felt it. So there’s that external force. And then our competitors are not sitting down napping. They’re also on top of these things. So we have these three external forces affecting us all the time. So for us to live and thrive on this edge, we have to be forward-looking, and we have to be extremely methodical. It goes back to that operational rigor.

Imagine you’ve got 20 different things coming at you. You have to figure out, “Hey, what is the most important thing here, and how do I respond to that? How do I respond to the change?” Being able to anticipate, being able to be forward-looking, and responding has allowed us to weather storms. It was post-Covid, obviously Covid too, but post-Covid was more important from a business perspective. And then you may have heard about this in maybe other conversations, when Claude released their latest version of Claude Code, they unleashed what is called the SaaS apocalypse, meaning SaaS companies, right?

SaaS companies are outdated. They no longer are needed because you can create your own app and you don’t need a SaaS company. So companies that help SaaS companies such as ourselves, B2B SaaS marketing agencies, were in that first line of companies to get affected. But we saw that coming. We saw that coming a year before, right? And we were working, we were preparing for it. So six, eight months in, it doesn’t hurt us as much as maybe it has hurt other companies. These are the things that help us grow. Yeah. Go ahead.

No, no. I’m just wondering, I understand that you are very agile. I mean, you use an agile system, but you’re also agile in the way you are responding to the market changes. You adjusted well with the SaaS apocalypse, or whatever it’s called. But just because you are avoiding a major landmine doesn’t mean it’s going to grow your business. So I wonder what drives the growth beyond being agile. So as the market changes, does it automatically help you create more revenue?

That’s a good question. Yes. Yes. So I’m probably talking very big picture. So let me convert that into how this actually drives growth for us. So a change happens, we respond to that change. Sure, it helps us survive. But think about a change in the LLM, the large language models such as Gemini or ChatGPT or Claude, the way they process information and the way they present that information to you.

Because we see that, we respond to it, we are able to make sure that when, Steve, maybe you go into Claude and you ask for, “Hey, I want to work with a SaaS marketing agency,” we make sure that we are on top over there because we are responding to changes that are happening in the back end, right? So it’s not just thriving, it’s making sure that you know what is happening so that you can always be at the forefront. Wherever people go to find you, you need to be there. But I’m simplifying this significantly.

So that is just responding, still responding. The thing that really drives growth for us internally is we find and work with really, really good people, great team members. We put in a lot of effort to find these great people, and when we find them, we hold onto them. This did not happen overnight. Finding great people is extremely hard, especially for a small business. So we came up with a methodology to actually finding those people. I looked at various methods, but the one method that appealed to me was this method called Who by Geoff Smart and Randy Street, these two authors.

I started there, but then I evolved that framework significantly over time to where it is now a core strength. So whenever we hire people, we know exactly what are the areas of strength they have, what are the areas that we’ll need to help them improve in. And so we know who is coming in and how we can best leverage them. So once we know that, we’re able to move forward fairly easily. So that’s one of our core things that helps us.

So what drives growth is, if I hear it correctly, what drives growth is staying visible with all the algorithm changes and the platform changes. You’re going towards more AI visibility as opposed to SEO visibility. And then also being able to recruit those people who will be able to do the work that is going to respond to the market demand.

Exactly. And the third part, the third lever to all of this is innovation. I mean, you would think that an agency would not innovate, but there’s innovation happening all the time in various things.

Whether it’s marketing approaches, whether it’s putting together a marketing operational platform or whatever else, you have to innovate to stay ahead. So I would say these are the three things that help us grow.

Yeah. Love it. That’s great. So visibility, people attraction, and innovation. That’s the three legs of the stool. Yeah. So what is one thing that you’re actively trying to figure out in your business right now?

One thing we’re trying to actively figure out? That’s such an interesting question. There’s so many things happening all the time, right? So let me pick one that comes right to mind. We’re trying to figure out whether we should raise capital or not. Because we look at some of the greatest recent successes in AI platforms and companies, and they’ve come from one-person to five-person teams. So the question now becomes, when there is no technology moat, there is no reason to hire 100 people to thrive, what is the role of capital?

So that is something that I’m debating internally about what should we do here. Do we need it? Do we not need it? And there are so many other things that we work on all the time. But I would say this is, at the moment, today, June or July 2026, what’s top of mind for me.

Yeah. It’s a great question. If you don’t need more people and it’s a professional service that you’re providing, you’re innovating with your own resources and AI, then what is the capital need of the business?

Right.

So to what extent can a business grow today without adding people? Is it possible to scale a business without adding people?

The popular word on the street is grow a business without people. I don’t think that’s possible, to grow a business without people. If you have domain experts and you have people with the right traits, you can grow with a very small company. And those traits are things like: you need to be a critical thinker. You need to be able to question and analyze things a bit differently. You need to have domain expertise.

Most important for me, you need to have operational rigor. And when you have these kinds of people, yeah, I think you can grow with a very small team, but not a one-person company. Maybe in a few years, maybe in a few decades, that might be possible. But today, you can significantly speed up what you can do using AI, but you definitely need people who can manage those systems, who can squeeze the most out of those systems. You need those people manning those systems.

I also wonder if there is a threshold below which you don’t actually have a business. If you don’t have enough people to reduce your dependency on any single individual, including yourself, then do you actually have a business, or is it more like a professional practice?

Right. Right. Yeah. So it’s like you design a system and you just deploy it and it just runs on its own. So is that the business? I don’t know. It’s not really a business at that point. It’s just a tool that you put out there in the universe and it’s doing its thing. It’s a very philosophical question about where we end up as a result.

Yeah. And then things are changing all the time, so can you just rely on the system rejuvenating itself, or do you still need human energy to keep improving and keeping that business competitive in a fast-changing environment?

Right. It’s a question of the autonomous agents, right? How autonomous can autonomous agents really be today, and where does that lead us eventually? Does it lead us into AGI? We’ll see. But today, no. I would say strongly that autonomous agents are good within certain guardrails.

You can provide a lot more freedom for them to do it as long as they don’t break certain rules, and that’s where humans come in to make sure that those guardrails are maintained and the guiding happens. In today’s world, I don’t think that business exists without any employees. In tomorrow’s world, it might. Yeah. And that changes the economy, that changes everything.

Yeah. That’s an even bigger question.

Yeah.

Well, if you had a magic wand and you could fix one thing in your business in the next 12 months, what would that be?

Learning curves. I would love to skip past learning curves. And by that I mean, even when we find the best people with all the best traits, frequently what we see is we end up having to train people on what we know and what we know works, and that takes several months. It takes several months to get there. So it’d be amazing if I had a magic wand and day one they’re ready to go.

Yeah. So you’re deploying these agents for SaaS companies. Who is the ideal client that you would like to contact you when they hear this podcast?

We serve B2B SaaS companies, right? And so we work typically with companies who have what is called product-market fit, meaning their value has been articulated and they’re looking to grow. Those are the companies that we normally work with. And as we deploy Brazenly, our marketing operations orchestration tool, we’re looking to help marketing teams. And those teams could be a three-person team.

It could be a 20-person team. It doesn’t matter. It is built to scale. But that part of the business is definitely focused more on team productivity or automation of marketing teams as opposed to an individual. That is what ChatGPT and others are focused on, individual productivity. We focus on the team productivity aspect of it.

So you need companies that have figured out their product and they already have multiple people in marketing that need the support?

We normally work with companies that have figured out their value proposition and are looking to grow, so they don’t have, this is on the marketing agency side, right? So they don’t have all the people in place in order for them to grow, and that’s where we come in. We come in as a marketing department, and we will help take over all those marketing functions. That is on the agency side.

On the AI platform side, it’s a slightly different focus, which is we are helping ourselves. We are helping ourselves become more efficient as we help our clients. That’s one. But for someone else to use a marketing platform, they need to have a marketing team that can actually leverage the marketing operations platform. So there’s the agency focus, and then there’s the Brazenly marketing platform focus.

So you have the done-for-you version, which is the professional service as an agency, and then you have the DIY version, which is them using your platform to do it themselves, basically.

You’re exactly right. So there’s the done-for-you, there’s the done-with-you, and then there’s the DIY, right? Okay. Done-for-you is the agency. The done-with-you is, as much as there’s promise with AI platforms, you still need to build the agents. You still need to deploy them. That is the done-with-you, which is we’ll consult with marketing teams to help them deploy these agents. And the DIY is, here’s the AI operations platform. Go and use it yourself. That is the DIY. Okay. So you’re exactly right.

Yeah. Love it. Love it. That’s a great slate of services. So if people would like to learn more, I get it, they should not go to LinkedIn, but where should they go? Where can they find you?

Yeah. So you can always contact me on various platforms, Twitter, email, Instagram, and such. But if you want to get in touch, I would say the best way is to just drop me an email. My email is aj@bayleafdigital.com.

So Abhi Jadhav, the CEO and Founder of Bayleaf Digital and Brazenly. So if you’d like to accelerate your marketing, if you’re a B2B SaaS company and you want to accelerate your marketing, whether it’s complete done-for-you, done-with-you, or DIY, Bayleaf Digital and Brazenly can take care of you. So reach out to Abhi Jadhav on Twitter, email, or through the website, bayleafdigital.com.

And if you enjoyed this episode, then make sure you subscribe and you follow us because we come out with a couple of interviews every week with exciting entrepreneurs who are building great businesses. So thanks for coming, Abhi, and sharing your wisdom, and thanks for listening.

Thank you very much for having me, Steve. It was a pleasure.