Saul Marquez, Founder and CEO of Outcomes Rocket, helps medtech and healthtech companies get closer to revenue through healthcare-focused marketing strategy and execution. Driven by a desire to be a source of love and inspiration, Saul supports healthcare innovators whose work helps people live healthier, longer lives. He believes companies improving healthcare deserve to succeed and should not have to navigate growth alone.
In this conversation, Saul shares his Leverage the 3 Forms of Marketing Framework—Owned (podcast, books, content), Earned (Stages, Testimonials), and Paid (Drive Traffic to What Converts). He explains why companies need a clear strategy and strong owned assets before pursuing earned exposure, and why paid marketing should amplify a funnel that already converts. Saul also discusses growing through primary research, thought leadership, podcasting, and conferences rather than relying on cold outreach. He shares why marketing metrics must connect to pipeline and revenue, and how sales blockers, opportunities, and needs can guide the creation of campaigns and sales enablement assets.
—
Get Closer to Revenue with Saul Marquez
Good day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with The Management Blueprint Podcast, and my guest today is Saul Marquez, the Founder and CEO of Outcomes Rocket, a healthcare-exclusive marketing strategy and full-service marketing execution firm that helps medtech and healthtech companies accelerate their growth. Saul, welcome to the show.
Steve, such a pleasure to be here with you and your listeners. Thank you for the opportunity.
Well, I really have to get my A-game today because I rarely find a podcaster who’s recorded more episodes than I have. You beat that by a multiple of five or six. So definitely, I have to be on my best performance. But my first question is always the same, at least recently. What is your personal “Why,” and how are you manifesting it in your business?
My personal Why. I did some thinking. This was probably about 20 years ago. I did this program. I’ve always been very reflective, and I’m a big journaler. I love to write my thoughts. And I had the chance to, about 20 years ago, do a program called Date With Destiny. It’s a Tony Robbins program. It was a game changer for me. Five days with people that want to just crush it in life—personal, professional, financial, right? Like, they just want to do the best.
And so I had these five days to myself to really look inside, journal, question. And during that session, he has what he calls your primary question. You sort of look inside and you ask and you think about, like, what are those words, the stories that you tell yourself? And the primary question is that question that drives your life. And I was able to uncover that my primary question is, “I want to be a source of love and inspiration to myself and others.” And so I’m driven by love. I’m driven by inspiration. And so that’s my primary question and my primary Why. And then, when you think about it professionally, Steve, I’m very driven by mission.
So because of that, I started my career in medical devices around the same time that I actually did the seminar. And I’m driven by being able to help people live better lives and increase health span, not just lifespan. And that’s why the work that we do focuses around leaders innovating in the healthcare space. So very driven by those things.
But these are very noble ideas. And I mean, who wouldn’t want to live better, live longer? That’s an obvious need from everyone, really. And it’s a great thing if you can create an impact in that realm, that then you are creating something very valuable.
You are, Steve. And the data point here that I’ll share to pair the purposefulness, the data point, because we’re very data-driven as a business, and I’m a data geek, is that healthcare is essentially 18% of U.S. GDP, which represents $4.8 trillion annually. It’s larger than the German economy, and that’s just the U.S. alone. So whenever anybody says, “Oh, your niche is healthcare,” I say, “Well, I mean, my economy that I’m focused on is healthcare.” It’s huge.
Of course. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And probably, I mean, we can get into whether that’s not an overinflated number. Is it really that proportionate value? But if you think about it, the biggest resource is humans, then spending 18% of GDP on the biggest resource is not much.
It definitely isn’t. And then if you sort of zoom out and you take a look at globally, GDP focused on healthcare, it’s definitely higher than most first-world countries. And the outcomes aren’t commensurate to the investment. So the opportunity to improve access, affordability, better outcomes is a huge opportunity. And I'm in awe, and I have major respect for all the entrepreneurs and business leaders in this space that are looking to improve those metrics for us in healthcare, and that's why we love to stand behind them. Share on X
The stats are real. 50% of businesses fail within five years, and something above 80% fail within 10 years. And we believe at Outcomes Rocket that if you’re in the business of helping people live healthier, longer lives, you deserve to succeed, and we want to be behind you. And so that’s why we do what we do. The people doing the work, it’s hard, and they can’t do it alone.
Yeah. Love it. Just as an aside, whatever happened to this initiative of Warren Buffett and Jeff Bezos that they announced some years ago that they would reform the—
Yeah.
Healthcare?
Haven?
Yeah. I don’t know what it was called.
Yeah, Haven. So yeah, it was Berkshire Hathaway, Amazon, and JPMorgan. And it didn’t work. And it shows you that, like, even when the best of the best try to go do something about it, it doesn’t work. It’s hard. It’s hard work. Yeah. It’s hard work.
I bet it’s very hard. So hopefully AI will fix it. Let’s hope. What do you think about that?
That’s a great one, man. Like, AI definitely is not fixing it. However, properly deployed AI in solutions such as ambient scribing that helps physicians spend time with patients and no longer have to do what they call pajama time. Pajama time is the time that they spend at home after hours logging things into the medical record. Like, if you’re able to give a physician time back from not having to do that, and actually time back to look at you in the eyes when you’re in the waiting room, that’s awesome use of AI.
The use of AI in the elimination of waste is also beautiful. So I think as a tool, for sure, there’s huge promise in the use of AI for healthcare. Hell, in robotics, man. Like, I was just at a conference, Steve. I was in Miami. Where do you live, by the way?
I’m in Virginia.
Oh, you’re in Virginia? Cool. I’m in San Diego, where I’m literally at the SRS, so that’s the Society of Robotic Surgery. And I’m in the room, and there was a surgeon in Virginia, actually, and a surgeon in California, and the robots were operating on. It wasn’t a person. It was actually just like a simulation, but it was like a cadaver type of thing. And with AI, spatial AI, and the use of technology, these surgeons are operating in two different states on one person.
Remotely?
Yeah, remotely, and it’s working great through robotics. So all of this stuff, man, is coming together. Yesterday, I had a conversation with an entrepreneur in the materials and 3D printing space. She’s been in it for years, and just chatting with her was inspiring because what they could do now as far as custom-built plates for craniomaxillofacial or foot and ankle, they could literally print this stuff overnight on sheets, whereas it used to take months.
Like, we’re moving fast, and the innovations that are available. She called it patient matching, like the N of one. I mean, what’s possible today for a fraction of the cost than it used to be back then is just inspiring. And it’s happening right before us. So it’s a really great, great time to be alive.
And to stay alive.
And to stay alive. Exactly. Well said, my friend. Well said. Hey, you have to tell me about Summit OS and Fable, man. Like, I love what you have back there.
Well, I’ll tell you all about Summit OS on your podcast, but on this podcast, we talk about you. That’s fair. That’s fair.
I like that. I like that.
So let’s talk about frameworks because this podcast is a podcast of frameworks.
I love frameworks.
And I saw that you have the Discover, Define, Deliver, or something like that. But I’m looking for something more unique. Yeah. So something that maybe that’s more insightful or more unique or more you that you could share with the audience, which still can be explained in four to five steps or elements maximum to which give people an insight as to how to do things better.
Absolutely. So I think you and I are brothers from another mother, Steve, because I just love frameworks as well. So the 3D approach is easy, as you mentioned, right? But it is our approach and how we reproducibly bring about a program from start to finish for a client: Discover, Define, Deliver.
Underneath that, that is the hood to another framework, which when you start to deliver, the framework is essentially a four-part framework that starts with strategy, then it’s owned, earned, and paid, okay? And so those are the types of marketing that you could do. And you mentioned at the beginning we’re a marketing strategy and full-service execution agency, which essentially means we’re a revenue partner, we’re a commercialization partner.
So when you go to market with your value and your value proposition, it all starts with strategy. Strategy is so key. And one of the key quotes that we always share, Steve, is that, “Tactics are the noise you hear before the war is lost.” And I have to say, Steve, and everybody with us, in marketing, there are so many tactics. Too many. And guess what?
Today, with AI, there are so many tactics. I was just on a podcast a couple days ago where I made this connection. I hadn’t made the connection yet, but you have to have an AI strategy. If you don’t have an AI strategy, you become part of somebody else’s plan, and even worse, you become so fragmented, and it’s reflecting in your P&L. Like, you not having an AI strategy is showing up in your P&L in a big way. But anyway, back to the marketing thing and the framework. So start with the strategy.
Inside of your strategy are some very basic things, such as your personas, your ideal client personas, which is like firmographic, kind of number of employees, revenue, et cetera. Share on X Your core messaging. Your brand house essentially is your vision, your differentiation, and then your performance promise. It’s essentially like three pillars. That’s your strategy and your positioning, right? Then when you go to owned, earned, paid—and by the way, they’re in this order for a reason. It’s like algorithmic.
I liken it to the Rubik’s Cube. I was watching a YouTube video with my nine-year-old, and he was like, “Hey, Dad, figure out how to solve this.” I brought him a Rubik’s Cube from a conference. I watched this four-part video. The guy’s name is Cubastic. Have you ever watched it, Steve?
No.
No? Okay. Cubastic, literally, he’s a genius. Like, in four 10-minute videos, walks you through how to solve a Rubik’s Cube. And I can solve a Rubik’s Cube in less than two minutes and 30 seconds reproducibly now. It’s actually one of my conference tricks now, like whenever I go to a booth. And so I’m sitting there thinking, like, yes, no matter what, wherever the pieces are on the cube, if you use this algorithm, it's a four-part framework it gets you to the same end. Share on X
So I’m thinking, that’s exactly what we do. So the strategy, then owned, earned, paid, in that order. So owned is everything that’s on your website, what you put out on social. If you have a podcast like yours, Steve, this is owned. You own this. It’s the narrative that you own. Newsletters. Then you have earned. Why does this order matter? Well, if you try to do earned media, like if you hire a PR agency to do earned media, get you media attention, and you don’t have your strategy or your story straight, you’re going to confuse the market even more.
So that’s why earned is after owned. And with earned, it’s everything that you get. There’s a gentleman that put it really great. I have to get his name, but I got this from him. OPS, he calls it Other People’s Stages. And there’s digital and there’s physical stages. I’m on your digital stage. You’ve built this thing, and you’ve invited me, and I’m grateful for it. And by the way, I’m going to have you on mine. I want to learn about Summit OS, and I want to learn about your frameworks, and I want our audience to also learn about those.
So there’s an asset here, and we’re doing an exchange, which is beautiful, and we’re spreading ideas that make a difference. So in earned, you’re getting opportunities like on OPS, and those could also be written. So you get a byline article on a publication, right? Or you get invited to speak at a conference. That’s earned. And then there’s paid. And people ask me the question, like, “Hey, I’ve got these paid campaigns going on.” And I’m like, “Dude, you have nothing on your website that supports a narrative. Nobody is talking about you. Why would you even pay for anything?” I don’t care what it is.
Unless you got all those other things right, paid is there, like paid conferences, to get more people that’ll read the brochures that are owned, that’ll see the testimonials that are earned, that’ll convert to opportunities to check out your demo or sit with you to consider what you’re doing as a business to solve problems. And so the paid is essentially a way to increase traffic to an existing funnel that converts.
So essentially, this framework of strategy, owned, earned, paid is the framework of marketing that, if done right algorithmically, you will get results. Share on X And the result is the acceleration of someone, a business or a person, that goes from the awareness to consideration to decision funnel, which is essentially the business funnel for anyone, right? You accelerate the speed at which somebody learns about you and the problems you solve, considers you as a solution, and then makes a decision to work with you.
So you’re not really selling a quick fix here, are you?
It’s not a quick fix. There are no quick fixes. You have to commit to the process and get it done.
Yeah, I like it. I mean, that makes complete sense. You have to have some assets that you start with that you own. I like the podcast. Okay, books can be like that. Yeah. Website, of course. Your frameworks are your asset, basically. And then you have to earn the right to actually share what you know. I love it. People validate, go through the stages, and get the testimonials, so you have to deliver. You have to prove that those assets are actually working, right?
Yes.
And then when you have a funnel, you already have a product that has proven itself, then it’s all about increasing the throughput. So paid is what?
That’s right.
There is an amplifier.
That’s it. That’s it. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
It makes complete sense. It’s a very good framework. I’ve never thought about it this way, but it makes complete sense to me.
And it’s algorithmic. No matter where the pieces in the cube are, if you run it, you’re always going to end up with the same color on each side. It just works.
Yeah. So if you don’t have your assets, you haven’t earned your right, then you are just wasting your money on paid. Yeah.
Yeah. You’re wasting it. You are. Now, there’s a use case for paid to accelerate learnings. If you’re working on copy that you just need feedback on, there’s a use case to get mass targeted, like your ideal client looking at and interacting with it to understand how to better convert. That’s a use case, right? You’re after conversion optimization data. That’s fine, right? That’s fine. You could use paid to fine-tune conclusions as well.
Can you use paid for market research?
Oh, yeah, for sure.
What you should be selling?
Yeah. You could definitely use paid for market research, for sure, if you have an end in mind. If your end in mind is to get more target, and then you just have to decide, right? Like, what payment model should you deploy? Should you put an ad out, or should you work with a partner that has access to a pool of qualified survey respondents? Would it be more efficient to just go through them, right? So it’s just a matter of what the end goal is.
That makes sense. So let me ask you a question, Saul. What drives growth in your business?
So a couple things. We do thought leadership, and so the thought leadership that we do is on healthcare marketing. Share on X And by the way, even though we focus on healthcare marketing, there’s fundamentals there that can apply to any business. So if you’re listening to this podcast and thinking, “I’m not healthcare,” there’s still fundamentals in the research that we do and the data that we mine that can help you.
So thought leadership based off primary research. So every quarter, we do two new reports. We conduct surveys focused on marketing strategies and tactics. Some of the latest ones we’ve done—we did one on podcasting, which is very interesting. We released this one about three weeks ago. This one’s gotten crazy media hits. Like, we’ve gotten over 30 media hits on this one.
PPC covered us, because it’s sexy still. Podcasts are sexy. But we had a lot of findings, and I’ll share the link with you. We don’t charge for our research. It’s free. We offer it to people so that they could do better marketing. Now, the thing that was most intriguing about that report for me, out of a lot of things, was that people are measuring the wrong thing as it relates to podcast marketing. You’ll see the results, but I remember these numbers. 57% are measuring engagement and downloads.
And that’s the wrong thing to measure. I’m going to segue to that later. The right thing to measure if you're a business is pipeline and revenue, not engagements and downloads. Share on X And the quote that I did on an article that I did recently is, “Downloads are vanity. Contacts and contracts are sanity.” Okay? You have to measure the right things. If you’re not a media company selling ads, who cares about downloads? So anyway, podcasts. We did a GTM report. We did one on public relations.
The other one that got a lot of really good traction earlier this year was one on chatbots. We analyzed over 5,700 citations to figure out what exactly are chatbots looking for. And we took a look at those 5,700 citations. It was a breakdown of Gemini, ChatGPT, Claude, and Grok. And so we said, why and what do these value? It changed the way that we actually post content on our site and our clients’ sites. So that’s a really valuable report that I would literally just take from our site, download into Claude, and say, “Based off of this report from Outcomes Rocket, how should I change up my copy and how I lay out my posts?” Because that’s going to help you get more AI visibility.
We actually have been running those plays on clients, and our numbers on ChatGPT and Claude Search and Gemini Search have gone up for them, right? It’s working. So we do this thought leadership stuff because we don’t like to experiment with our clients’ money. We like to actually do stuff that works and actually figure things out. So that’s thought leadership. And then the podcast is another thing that we do. So I love podcasting, Steve, as we were talking about before we hit record. I get a chance to connect with awesome people. Like, I keep thinking about Summit OS.
I’m going to learn about it on my podcast. I guess I can’t learn it on this one, but I get to meet people like you. We get to connect with listeners, like the ones—like, you’re listening to this because you want to be better. You want to improve your business, and it’s a chance for me to connect with you right now. And I’m going to invite you to reach out to me if something that I said resonates with you, because that’s why we do this. So podcasts are one of our great funnels, Steve. We do podcasting, and we meet a lot of great friends and collaborators and partners and clients through podcasting. And also conferences. So conferences are another amplifier for us. So I would say thought leadership, research, podcasting, and conferences are the best ways for us to grow our business. That's how we do it. Share on X
That’s very insightful. What I’m not hearing here is cold calling, cold emailing, spamming people. You’re not doing any of that. What I’m hearing here is you are giving people great content. You’re teaching people, and you’re connecting with people.
Yes.
Because podcasts, I agree with you, it’s all about connecting with people at a deeper level around interesting topics. Conferences are the same thing. You create relationships, and then you can follow up with the people who you like at the conference and turn them into partners or clients or whatever.
Yeah.
I love it. Love that.
And Steve, you’re a really insightful guy. I’m glad you went to that point. And so I was sitting there literally probably like five months ago, and I was having a conversation with a client of ours, and she was like, “Man, these cold emails that we’re doing,” because they wanted to do them, “I mean, we’re seeing clicks, and we’re seeing opens, but we’re seeing no replies and no meetings booked.” And I said, “Because the way we have to do it is through content.” Yeah. You have to offer.
If you go fishing and your hook has no bait on it, you’re not going to catch any fish, unless a dumb fish runs into your hook. You don’t want that fish anyway, right? That’s what you’re going to catch. And so I said, because I am kind of a data geek, as I shared with you, I said, “I want to own this frustration that you have right now. And here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to hire four lead gen agencies, and I’m going to put one on your account, I’m going to put two on our company, and I’m going to…” I had another client that I was having this conversation with. “I’m going to put another one on their account.” And so I paid for this research project.
I said, “I’m going to learn. I’m either going to learn how to do cold email really damn good because I’ve been not doing well at it.” Guess what? Secret. Nobody’s freaking doing good at it, okay? So, like, three months later, they failed miserably. Nobody was doing anything. So then I said, “Okay, let’s try this. Don’t ask for an appointment. I want you to, on this mass cold email project, I want to change the copy, and I want to put, ‘I want to invite you to my podcast.'” These are the same people that were not replying. Steve, I kid you not, man. Like, within one week, we had 13 people in line that want to talk to them. They’re thrilled. So my takeaway was, cool.
You know what? I’ve been playing too small in sort of these podcast outreaches. I mean, look, at the end of the day, it’s working, but I said, “I’m going to use this mass email failure and turn it into a success by inviting even more people.” So now what we’re doing is actually, with these pools of people that are interested, taking a look at webinars too, so one to few. One to one, one to few, so that we could serve the many.
And so from the ashes of those failures, not only did I feel better about myself, like, dude, nobody is winning at cold email marketing. Nobody. But if you’re thoughtful about it in the way that you do it and what you offer, it’s got to be content-forward. But anyway, I wanted to pick up on your insight there and share our experiment that we ran.
I think also that you and I have been doing podcasting a long time. It’s actually now a huge thing. When I started it, for the first five years, I had no idea what I was doing, why I was doing it. I enjoyed it.
Yeah.
But it wasn’t really a thing. And then now I realize that a lot of people are now starting to do podcasting, but when you have a brand-new podcast, people are going to be much more circumspect to engage with you because they assume it may just be a lead gen engine. But when you have an established podcast with a lot of episodes, then you are a legit media, and then they will engage.
So anyway, that’s an aside. So let me ask you this, Saul, because you’re really a systems thinker, and I like that. What is one thing that you are trying to actively figure out in your business right now?
Right now, the thing that I’m actively working to figure out is really scalability and processes around delivery. So we have a very talented team. We’re small but mighty. There’s 25 people on my team, right? What we do is very bespoke, and our clients really do love how we execute and get results for them. What I’m working on is to master our delivery model so that we are more in line with our clients’ business growth. A few of the things that we’re doing to that end is getting closer to revenue.
What I mean by that is, I don’t know about you, Steve, but my career was mostly in sales in medtech before starting the agency three years ago full-time. And I realized that whenever there was a crunch in a business, some of the first positions to go were marketing. But nobody ever got rid of salespeople. So I started having this conversation with my team about we have to get closer to revenue, right? Get closer to the revenue conversations, have clarity around the revenue conversations. Because if you're close to revenue and you're helping drive revenue, you become more indispensable. Share on X
We might get T-shirts. I was kidding around that our theme is indispensable, and we might get T-shirts that say “Indispensable.” But that’s what we’re working on right now, is solidifying and optimizing our delivery so that we are more indispensable and we can continue growing at the pace that we’ve been growing to the next goals in our year and then our five-year and our 10-year plan.
So essentially, are you saying that getting closer to revenue means getting more directly impacting revenue, more directly making sure that the client is increasing revenue? Because marketing, you can increase marketing, but if it doesn’t have an impact, then it’s going to go away. So is this what you mean?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Because again, back to the whole thing, the quote, right? Like, “Tactics are the noise you hear before the war is lost.” In marketing, it’s so easy to report on metrics. But if your metrics are not tied to revenue, good luck.
Yeah. And there are some people who are doing great marketing, but they are doing very poorly in converting their leads, and therefore they’re wasting the marketing, and they might fire the marketing agency because you don’t have any clients. But they actually are downstream screwing things up. And if you can help them there, then your marketing is going to be much more resilient.
Yeah. And we’re getting awesome feedback from our clients. They love this. They’re telling us what they need. Right now, where we’re at, it’s three. So we do our weekly reporting, right, to our clients on kind of like what we’re doing on campaigns and research projects and execution. And so in our weekly report-out, we are finalizing sort of these three slides that are essentially sales. Like, the first slide is essentially the top five opportunities for the month and where they’re at. Sales blockers, sales opportunities, and then big needs, like sales needs.
So when the sales call happens, we get a transcript from that call, and the marketer asks the questions about, “Hey, what’s holding you back? What could help you move these deals faster?” We get that transcript, and then we create sales enablement assets or landing pages or campaigns that help move those deals forward. And that’s been awesome. Like, being able to do that, that’s being close to revenue, and it’s something that we’re adapting and being responsive to client needs, and that’s sort of where it’s taken us recently.
Yeah, I love it. Blockers, opportunities, and needs. So how are needs different from resolving the blockers and capitalizing the opportunity?
A lot of times there’s overlap there on both of those. Yeah. The overlap is that a blocker could pair with a need that we could solve. But sometimes a blocker could be out of our control. Like, hey, we were going to sell them our microscope, but the MRI machine broke, and now they need to spend money on the MRI machine. Sh*t. There’s nothing we could do. Like, we’re pushing this deal to next quarter. Now, you could try to do stuff, creative financing or stuff like that, and we could have those conversations, but there’s some things that are out of our control.
I wonder if it’s needs or wants. Because I was thinking that maybe the needs are what the client already articulated as something that they realize that they need in order to grow revenue, whereas the blockers and opportunities will give you ideas how you can grow it in ways that they have not thought about.
Yeah.
And therefore, maybe instead of needs, it is the wants, and the needs are the ones that you add based on the blockers and opportunities. I don’t know.
I like that. I like it. No, no, I like it. I like it. And is the idea that, like, wants is a little more creative and open?
No, wants is something that they already articulated themselves that they want to do because they realize that they need that. But they need to do other stuff that they haven’t realized, and that’s what you come up with based on the blockers and the opportunities.
Correct. Correct.
It’s the unidentified wants basically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. I like that. I’m going to give some thought to that, Steve.
Yeah.
I like the idea.
Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity to give you a framework, or a framework.
I love it, man. I love it. I had to pull it out of you. I had to pull it out of you. Actually, I didn’t. I couldn’t do it. You gave it to me, right? No, no. When the student is ready, the teacher comes, right?
There you go. Well, in that case, the teacher was inspired by the student, but—
I love it.
Whatever.
I love it.
So you said it’s medtech and healthtech companies and payers also that you target?
Medtech and healthtech. And the payers, we actually—our clients sell to payers. So we do have a payer podcast where we interview payers and vendors in the payer market. But yeah, our main clients are health technology. So think Software as a Service, AI companies in healthcare, and then medical technologies like medical devices, implantables, wearables, that kind of thing, FDA-approved devices and technologies. Software as a medical device, that’s the medtech space.
Yeah. Love it. So these are the ideal ones. So if these people are listening to this podcast or they are seeing you on social media, you’re promoting this podcast together, where should they go? What do you want them to check out? How can they connect with you?
Yeah. Thank you, Steve. If you’re in the healthcare space and you want to raise your marketing game, increase your revenue, increase awareness of what your company’s doing, we’d love to be a part of it, whether it be you consuming our content. We don’t expect anything from you. Our content is all on outcomesrocket.com. Or you could find me on LinkedIn. If something that I post or that we post inspires you or makes you think differently, we always invite a conversation to explore working together. And so, yeah, outcomesrocket.com and LinkedIn are the best ways to reach us.
Okay. Saul Marquez, the CEO of Outcomes Rocket, thanks for coming on the show and sharing your awesome frameworks. I really enjoyed them. And if you’re listening to this, I mean, this is a goldmine for you guys. So make sure you follow us, you tune in to many episodes, because every week I bring a couple of fantastic entrepreneurs that will help you grow your business. So thanks for coming, Saul, and thanks for listening.
